169 replies to this topic

[eds]

Electric cars must be cheaper than ordinary gas-powered ones.
. . . To do that, the cost of the battery must be taken out of the equation.
. . . Ether like Shai Agassi's Better Place's battery Swapping or
. . . a trailer-like battery called ebuggy has been unveiled in Germany.
. . . Both promise virtually limitless electricity to EV owners
. . . through a network of charging stations.

Source: greenoptimistic

[E3 wise]

Convenience, affordability, personal needs and use trends, cost verses how it makes us feel, these are all personal choices.  We have all heard it many times live locally, think globally when it comes to all these green choices, so all problems are at their root first local problems.

For almost 30 years I have been struggling to get people to see the big picture, the subtle links between all the things we use and the social, economic, and environmental costs that so many in the United States and much of the developed world, never give a second thought.  Yes I am one of those people who is always thinking about the butterfly effects (chaos theory that a small change at one place in a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences to a later state, call it causality, feedback loops, snowball effect or fractal loops which all are just a little different variations) point is everything on our planet is connected.  Those connections have consequences and those consequences have consequences.

  Point – the internal combustion engine for all its benefits of the industrial revolution ( and I admit there have been a lot) has had some very negative cumulative effects that are quickly becoming so overwhelming we may have trouble recovering from them.  Millions of tons of greenhouse gases every day, environmental and ecological destruction in obtaining oil for fuel,, geo political unrest, a huge transferring of wealth from  developed countries to the Middle East, using of some of that money to fund global terrorism, destruction of habitat and Water resources, they all are linked by our need for transportation, even if we do or do not own a car or truck.

Now there are solutions to help mitigate these changes, and environmentally friendly alternative energy integration is the key. Save the Water, Clean the Air; Restore Habitats, by using Wind, Solar, Geothermal, Micro and Macro Hydro, Biofuels, and Hydrogen systems, each provides a choice to find the best fit that matches the local situations of every person on this planet.  Electric cars, FCV cars and Tractor Trailer Trucks provide the solutions we need to change the equation and affect our planet for the better.

Let me be clear Petroleum Engineers say the Middle East and much of the World will be out of oil by 2030 others by 2050 a difference of only 20 years, The Golden Age of Water availability in the United States and much of the world is coming to an end meaning, lack of low cost, clean, easy and affordable water will affect us all more and more, climate change is accelerating.  Literally we are on a speeding train headed for a cliff 50 miles in the future and the bridge is out, we will be there soon.  So logic says we slow down the train, build the bridge toward the future and cross into a new understanding of just how precious and special this planet is to all life as we know it.

  Alternative energy and electric transportation is that bridge, now do you want to build it or ride the train off the cliff, point is quit arguing about little social itiosecrecies and minor differences and work for the common good of us all, because whether you walk, bike, drive or whatever, most everything you use or consume comes from someplace else that has to be transported to you. Yes reduce and recycle, buy and use locally when you can but also look at the big picture, think about everybody, and the future, and the consequences of humans actions.

Finally a hybrid is a great first step, reducing consumption fantastic, but if we don’t want to all go back to living in cave’s and being local hunter gatherer farmers, if you want to benefit from global trade- electric transportation is the best hope we all have on this planet.  It still needs work, it’s not perfect, but it is our last best hope to reform our economy, environment and planet.

  This rant has been brought to you by an old, tired, tree hugging environmental warrior who just wants you to look at the big picture.

  Jeff Moore – Director of Technology and Integration
                  Environmental Power & Water Generation
                  Associate Director E3 Wise (Economic Environmental Energy Water IS Essintial)

[E3 wise]

Yes Ed’s I agree batteries are a technology hurdle for EV’s but with that said I want to make clear that real world solutions are becoming available and will be on the market in a few years.  In June I was lucky enough to be part of a group that toured the US Army’s Maryland Aberdeen Proving Ground.  Our visit was specifically to view the Army’s testing of BEV’s (Battery Electric Vehicles), PEV’s (Plug In Electric Vehicles), and FCV’s (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles).

Aberdeen has been one of the Army’s primary testing facilities.  First let me say that they are following a Holistic view by saying that it will need a wide range of choices in the future.  For small to midsize transportation they are testing three BEV’s and PEV’s that all have at least a 200 mile range and quick charge of 30 minutes to 1 ½ hour.  Way above what we have today on the market.  For larger vehicles FCV’s seem to be the best fit because of much greater weight tolerances, (up to 7500 lbs towing) for primary like Humvee, and 125,000 lbs. for Large Trucks and vehicles that use diesel today, and finally fast fill up 3 – 4 minutes for normal size cars and 15 – 20 minutes for Tractor Trailers and those big diesel like vehicles I spoke of earlier.

  Part of the reason for their extended range and quick charge is the use of new types of batteries that will very soon revolutionize electric cars because of range and recharge times but also because they will be cheaper to produce that current battery technology.  That said they are still investigating battery change out like what is being used in Israel, Australia, and Japan.

All battery technology will have some draw backs and weight is a big issue.  With that said this is one of the reasons why I personally feel that FCV’s will be the long term solution, by eliminating all those batteries, weight, cost, and life expectancy issues, FCV’s provide the same solution that gas or diesels do today while providing a way to fuel using alternative energy on site from a very small footprint.

   As I and many others have always said there is no ONE silver bullet that will meet every situation, but with a range of options there are solutions.

   So you ask why is the military so interested in non-fossil fuel transportation – simply logistics and costs.  If oil becomes scarcer and scarcer as we all know it will be then how do you provide energy for military use.  As usual they are 8 – 10 generations ahead of the private sector.  Example the US Navy is testing Hydrogen powered ships and Landing crafts, the Air Force electric and Hydrogen powered Drones, The Marines electric and Hydrogen hovercrafts and landing vehicles and the Army electric and hydrogen powered avionics, power providers and transportation.

All have partnered with the NREL’s Solar, Wind and Hydrogen programs which is how Lois and I get to see all these new and futuristic technology, my point is that there are a lot of options so don’t rule batteries out completely, that said I am firmly behind them all but like Hydrogen the best from alternative sources, now that we can provide hydrogen with high compression rates at 5000 to 10,000 psi (350-500 bar) in a unit that does not need additional compression, we have made hydrogen a full 30% more efficient and that my friends is a huge game changer for renewable hydrogen fueling and FCV’s, but once again don’t count anything out just yet.

[eds]

E3 Wise thank you for sharing, this insider info, it gives us hope for the future.

Tesla CEO Musk says the days of batteries are numbered,
. . . ultracapacitor will power us into the future and
. . . I was hoping see some mention of ultracapacitor/batteries.
Source: tesla-ceo-musk-says-the-days-of-batteries-are-numbered-ultracap  
The original reason Musk came out to California years ago
. . . was to do research on advanced, high energy density capacitors at Stanford, and
. . . to try to leverage what Musk said was tens of billions of dollars of R&D
. . . that’s been applied to capacitors for advanced ship making.
Source: tesla-ceo-id-bet-on-capacitors-over-batteries

[E3 wise]

You bring up a good point and to be honest I did not talk about ultra capacitors because it is a technology that I have almost no experience with.  I have read several technical papers that seem promising, but like I said almost no hands on time.  It's really hard for me to not be excited and disappointed at the same time, I want change now, no more pilot programs and decades long testing, I am half way through my life and when I look back all I can say is I thought we would get more done.
"
I made my first fuel cell in 1986, it was only 10 volts but i was sure the technology would change the world, I built my first solar panel and worked on my first wind turbine even earlier, in 1975, I also thought they would change the world.  Now I just want to get on with it.  I have children and grandchildren who cll me the mad futurist.  I honestly don't know if its because they think I am crazy or just really upset and ticked off by the lack of change.  Either way we have got to make some changes or the world their children will inherit may not be worth a wooden nickel.

[Evilsprinkles]

yoder, on 22 September 2012 - 06:45 AM, said:

There are quite a few (me included) who envy such a lifestyle, that we could live in a remote area and live very simply.  It isn't a realistic option for me (yet) as I have to make my living by being close to my customers.

I certainly agree with your observations that convenience trumps everything else and people will not think twice about hopping in the car to drive 5 blocks to the store.  I simply don't believe this will change though, as that is what these conveniences are there for, to make our lives easier.  Taking away a convenience without replacing it with a similar or better convenience is a non-starter in most of the world today (not just the western world).  Asking people to give up conveniences without some tangible payback is doomed to fail.  People see convenience as one of the few real benefits of living in a civil society.  We have to pay taxes, we have to follow rules and laws and not randomly punch some bonehead for making us mad.  And in return we get convenience.  We get at our disposal, many niceties, luxuries and non-essential things that make our lives easier.

I believe that the realistic, sustainable way forward is to exchange the conveniences of civil society with equal or better solutions, not to take them away.

I do realise that the way I live my life, isn't going to be feasible for many others--it does very much depend on where you live, how easy it is to get to places you'd need to go, etc, etc. The UK is more densely populated that larger countries, and we don't have hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles to cover, just to get from one town or city, to the next. If I DID live in an environment like that, then yes, I would absolutely have to have a vehicle that was functional to my needs.

If I need to get up to our supermarket, I can take a bus, and come back home the same way. However, most of the time I bulk order online, which yes still means someone has to bring the stuff TO me in a truck, but I tend to work on a monthly basis and not weekly. The last time I was in a supermarket, the lady at the checkout asked me if I would like to arrange for delivery. I politely declined and said I could manage on the bus. She looked at me as if I was some kind of pod-person.

We have very much set ourselves up for a life of convenience, and as upsetting as that is, we can't really undo that. The only real way for people to learn self sufficiency, would be for some kind of disaster to occur, whereby everyone had to survive using skills they've learned, and off whatever supplies they've stashed away from themselves. You'd see then just how many people are living at the behest of convenience, and those who know a thing or two.

Since people have become so reliant on convenience, then as you said, we can't take them away, it's more that we have to alter them to be more sustainable, and more ecologically sound.

[E3 wise]

Look I am all for personal choice and reducing the affect we have on our planet.  Personally I envy your lifestyle. I travel over 250 days a year, there are times when I do not see home for three weeks at a time.  My office is where ever I am at the time.  I have stayed in so many hotel rooms that I can not remember what my own room looks like sometimes.  So to me your life sound brilliant.  Do I drive,  some times more than 2000 miles a month, do I fly, 100's of thousands of miles a year.  Why do I do it all, believe it or not to bring alternative energy to the mainstream.

So as far as I feel, keep it up, your life sounds very nice to me.

[E3 wise]

I had the pleasure of checking out the new Tesla S recharging station a few days ago.  First of course let me say that even with the $7500 federal rebate, an electric car starting at about $50,000 and going all the way up to $95,000 is just crazy, but for me the technology is what is important because I know that the cost will come way down in a few years.

The dual charging 220 plug allows for 85% recharge in 30 minutes which provides 120 miles for the 40 Kwh and up to 260 miles for the 85 Kwh model.  That is a huge step forward.  So then I got to take a test drive, it rode very nice and had lots of great bells and whistles, the model I drove was the $ 70,000 model.  As I was driving it my thoughts kept coming back to one desire, to see this technology in a car that costs 1/4 as much, somewhere around $20,000.

With that said a recent projection by transportation experts is projecting up to 30 million electric cars by 2050, and if wireless charging becomes widespread, (the current buzz in the electric car circles) the possibility of never needing to plug in the car would be fantastic, it would also allow electric cars to sell back to utilities when needed.  A little factoid is that 4 million electric cars would provide as much energy as what is used by utilities here in the United States today.

   Yet as we all know, in this economy, wide spread adoption, will all come down to cost, so I won’t be getting a electric car just yet. Oh and like I always say I really want an FCV electric car, but to each their own.

[E3 wise]

For anyone who has been reading our posting on electric cars for a while you will know that I am very pro electric car.  You will also know that of the choices between hybrids, battery electric, plug in electric, and fuel cell cars, my personal favorites are the full cell cars.  It is purely a personal preference based on things like size, ease of fill up, and range available.

   Being a member of the fuel cell and Hydrogen Energy Association allows us to be able to take advantage of demonstrations and drive and rides, which have allowed us to actually test drive every FCV that will be coming on the market in 2015.  So here is some news I wanted to pass along.

Hyundai to Begin Commercial Roll-out of FCEV in December 2012
On September 27, Hyundai announced that series production of its hydrogen ix35 fuel cell vehicle for public and private lease would begin by the end of 2012. Production will begin at Hyundai's Ulsan manufacturing facility in Korea, with a target of building 1,000 vehicles by 2015. The ix35 fuel cell can accelerate from zero to 60 miles per hour in 12.5 seconds, has a top speed of 100 miles per hour, and has a driving range of 365 miles.   Its fill up time is 3 ½ minutes at a current average of $22.00 per fill up.





Toyota Reconfirms 2015 Launch for fuel cell Electric Sedan, 2016 Launch of fuel cell Bus
On September 24, Toyota released an update on the status of environmental technology development and future plans for the automaker; this included an update reconfirming a 2015 launch of a fuel cell electric vehicle sedan.
Toyota also stated that their proprietary fuel cell stack has the world's highest power output density of 3 kW/L, more than twice the density, and half of the size and weight, of the stack used in Toyota's FCHV-adv fuel cell hybrid prototype vehicles.  Also included in the release was the announcement that Toyota is accelerating development of a fuel cell electric bus with a goal of launching the vehicle in 2016.





Nissan Unveils TeRRa fuel cell Crossover Concept Vehicle
On September 12, Nissan unveiled its new TeRRa Concept, an all-wheel-drive fuel cell crossover utility vehicle, just before the 2012 Paris Motor Show.   The front wheels of the TeRRa will be powered by the same electric propulsion system that is currently featured in the Nissan LEAF, while the rear wheels each have their own in-wheel electric motor. A Nissan-developed fuel cell stack will generate power for the vehicle's batteries.



I have not gotten a chance to drive this one. Yet


On the fueling front for all those people like me who want the message that fueling can be accomplished from alternative energy, here are two additional tidbits.

ITM Power installs hydrogen station at the University of Nottingham
On September 19, the University of Nottingham announced the installation of a hydrogen refueling station provided by ITM Power to its newly completed 2,500 square meter Energy Technologies Building (ETB), making it one of only a handful of hydrogen stations in the UK. The University plans to make up to five hydrogen fueled vehicles available for leasing and testing to Nottingham drivers for the next year.

The hydrogen for the station is generated on site using an ITM Power PEM electrolyzer which utilizes power generated from solar photovoltaic panels on the roof of the ETB. See guys power generated from solar photovoltaic panels on the roof of the ETB.


Air Liquide First Public Hydrogen Refueling Station in Germany
On September 7, Air Liquide opened its first hydrogen refueling station in Germany, in the city of Dusseldorf. This station is the first of 11 to be built by Air Liquide in Germany over the next three years to prepare for the expected roll-out of fuel cell electric vehicles in 2015.
Two other stations have been designed and built recently by Air Liquide; one in Oslo, Norway, the other in Brugg, Switzerland. To date, Air Liquide has designed and installed 60 hydrogen refueling stations  worldwide.
All of the German stations will be using locally generated electricity from wind, solar, or bio reactors to meet Germany’s standard of 50% transportation from renewable sources by 2025 and 85 % by 2050.
And finally

Boeing Publishes Video Update on ecoDemonstrator Partnership with American Airlines - Outfitting 737-800 with Regenerative fuel Cell.

On September 17th, Boeing published a video update on the ecoDemonstrator project, announcing that through a partnership with American Airlines they are currently outfitting a 737-800 with a variety of advanced experimental equipment, including a regenerative fuel cell, in an effort to develop a more environmentally friendly plane.

In the video Joe Breit, Boeing Commercial Airplanes fuel cell Investigator and member of FCHEA's Board of Directors, discusses the project stating, "right now all the electrical power comes from the engines and burning carbon-based fuels. With [the regenerative fuel cell] system, we can make electricity for the airplane and use only potentially clean hydrogen and oxygen."
Joe Breit continues saying, "It really helps us understand what we need to do to bring this technology forward in the future and make it work in an airplane."

Larson, Blumenthal Introduce Complementary fuel cell and Hydrogen Energy Tax Incentive Bills in House and Senate

On September 12, Congressman John Larson (D-CT) and Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-CT) introduced identical bills in the House and Senate, "The fuel cell and Hydrogen Infrastructure for America Act of 2012," H.R. 6384 and S.3531. The bills support fuel cell and hydrogen energy technologies and infrastructure with federal incentives.

In a press release issued by Senator Blumenthal's office, the Senator stated, "This exciting measure can make Connecticut the fuel cell capital of America - creating jobs, clean energy, and freedom from foreign oil. fuel cell manufacturing puts people to work and opens a new energy future for Connecticut and the nation. I'm proud to join Congressman Larson in this battle."

Congressman Larson is also quoted in the press release stating, "American ingenuity and hard work has put us on the cutting edge of fuel cell and hydrogen energy technology and we should be doing everything possible to keep us there because it will help our economy, create good jobs, and reduce our dependence on foreign oil. That's what this legislation is intended to do. By increasing incentives for the development and use of fuel cells we'll ensure the technology continues to grow. I applaud Senator Blumenthal for introducing this bill in the Senate, and I look forward to seeing this industry strengthened for the future."

[E3 wise]

Lois wanted me to add that for full disclosure, when we did our rating this year in February that the Hyundai was my favorite.  It was really quick had a great turning radius and had room for five with storage.  So you have room for stuff to go camping, tailgating or what ever, and still have fantastic range which for me is a huge deal.

[yoder]

Thank you E3 wise.  A lot of excellent information.

It does bring me back to the idea of simplicity, and I don't think we can count on simplicity being a factor in the migration from ICE to EV or FC.  But that isn't necessarily a bad thing either.  Safety, performance, dependability and sustainability are all factors that add complexity to everything they touch, but they are all things we want and/or need.  The complexity of these next generation vehicles will be many times that of their ICE predecessors, but this will also be offset a bit by the reduction in moving parts.

As the venerable Steve Jobs would say, these next generation vehicles are insanely great.

[teamrose]

Having an electric car in every garage would be a terrible disadvantage to the millions of renters out there. The electric car usually comes with a tax break. If a person can't afford a home then of course they won't have a garage and will miss the tremendous savings an electric car would generate. Unless there was a way for renters to charge their cars overnight, I just don't think having an electric car is going to work.

[E3 wise]

Teamrose you bring up a good point so let me share a little something.  I think you are underestimationg the power of being able to charge you car while you are at work, or shopping, or even fueling FCV's at good old gas stations.  In Austin Texas, California, oregon, Washington, Virginia and a lot more states businesses, malls, supermarkets and parking garages are all installing charging stations to meet the needs of people like renters to charge or fuel elctric cars.

I have to be careful to not use to much personal information but I can give you a general example.  In Austin a certain grocery store chain is about to install 10 charging lanes at each of its locations, I know this because our business is designed the solar charging stations and their integration into the locations.

In California several malls are doing the same.  Why? Well because studies are showing that people charging their cars spend longer time in stores so they buy more.

California is just one of the states mandating a certain number of electric cars and trucks, the solution for charging or fueling those cars and trucks are part of the issue so cities like Los Angeles and many others have committed to charging stations that fuel cars during the day while the sun is out instead of relying on charging at home.

As far as fuel cell electrics, well pull into a hydrogen station, take three minutes to fuel and be on your way, but that is only one type of electric.  

My son has a Chevy Volt and lives in Austin Texas, because he is part of the electric car program he pays five dollers a month and can charge his car at any of 170 differant charging stations downtown.  He rents yet he is still able to pull into the parking garage, go to the top floor and park under a solar recharging station, and like I said he pays five dollars a month, god I wish I paid five bucks to fuel my car for a month and you know what, I bet you do too.

[Shortpoet-GTD]

E3 wise, on 15 October 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

Well because studies are showing that people charging their cars spend longer time in stores so they buy more.

Certain businesses would be ideal for that. Laundromats, malls, bowling alleys, movie theaters. Places were
people stay for a few hours.
Great post, thanks.

[E3 wise]

Motor Trend has named the Tesla S it's car of the year. It is the first electric car to ever win the highly prized award.  Way to go Tesla and who knows, maybe a step toward someday mass market EVs and FCVs

[E3 wise]

British EV Charging Stations

Well were back from England doing the field work for a major grocery retailer that is now taking bids on integrating 75 EV charging stations over the next 2 years at its stores throughout England. The stations goals are to integrating roughly 65% or higher from solar and wind, with the remainder to be made up from grid tied integration.

Design parameters call for 30 minute to 1 hour charging stations using 50 kW, 400-500 VDC, and 100 – 125 amp service.  Likewise extra consideration is being given to designs that combine hybrid facilities for EV charging and hydrogen production for future FCV fueling infrastructure.

While we were away I noticed a lot of chatter regarding electric cars and FCV’s on the AGW discussion thread. Why a discussion of electric cars got so long in a climate change thread I will never know, but I think Shortpoet did a great job of getting that thread back on the Climate Change subject were it was suppose to be.

Anyway, that said I thought I would throw the discussion over to the proper thread to be picked up there.  The grocery company will be making a announcement in the next 45 to 60 days, at which time we will be allowed to discuss the winning bidders designs, (for whomever they choose), until then I just could not resist throwing out some facts about current EV and FCV development to counter those nay Sayers who just can’t seem to come to grips with the real world reality of what is going on now.

Let’s start with some easy to document references starting with of course Wikipedia, which I hate doing, but, I guess I might as well start there even though I tend to find Wiki is usually a little behind actual numbers.

As of March 2013 the United States has 5678 public charging stations with another 16,256 public charging points.  I know for a fact the numbers are a little higher, but this will do for now. of which 3,990 were located in California, 1,417 in Texas and 1,141 in Washington.

http://en.wikipedia....harging_station

As of November 2012, about 15,000 charging stations had been installed in Europe.  Once again Wikis numbers, I prefer the International Energy Agency, here is a link to their new Global EV Outlook for all you die hard report readers.

http://www.iea.org/t..._FullReport.PDF

Now let’s move onto current news stories making headlines here and around the world.

Leviton Awarded $1 Million to Add 82 Electric Car Charging Stations in New York.
http://inhabitat.com...ns-in-new-york/

Fast Food & Fast Charging For Electric Cars: The Perfect Combination Meal
http://www.greencarr...ombination-meal

BMW Offering Carport Fit With Solar Panels for i Cars
http://www.autoguide...for-i-cars.html

The PA Turnpike Announces Plans For Electric Car Charging Stations
http://cumberlink.co...ac31-11e2-ba0a-
0019bb2963f4.html

and finally coming to a dealer near you soon, take a look at this puppy.

2014 Chevrolet Spark rated 119 mpg
http://www.autoweek....RNEWS/130429893

Moving on to FCV News

California gasses up, aims to have 100 hydrogen filling stations by 2017
http://www.digitaltr...once=2fa73224c6

From the UK

Michael Fallon welcomes publication of hydrogen car report.
http://www.automotiv...en-cars-report/

Here is a story for good old Phil, who like me is looking for the day when we can use our solar at home to fuel our cars, we might try to get in on this one ourselves, if we can find some extra time, (yea right, can't find time to sleep as it is).

US DOE seeking input on home hydrogen refueler system.
http://www.greencarc...e-20130424.html

and in closing a great story because this design can be used for both EV charging or with some slight modification fuel Cell fueling from home.

Honda Smart Home US to Use Solar Power To Charge Fit EV
http://www.hybridcar...-charge-fit-ev/

So now let the games begin, discuss among yourselves, be nice, have fun, got to run cause we need to work on the bid for England’s next new 75 EV charging Stations.  Wish us luck.

Jeff & Lois Moore - E3Wise
Environmental Power and Water Generation.

[E3 wise]

Oh and here is a posting in the blog from our own Eds.  He does such a fantastic job with the blogs posting, everyone should check them out daily, we do.

http://reneweconomy....-carriage-57664

[Phil]

Definitely up my alley!   Hopefully FCV's and home refueling will be affordable within five years.  That's about when I'll be in the market again.  We only drive about 5000 miles a year so our cars last a loooooong time.

[Besoeker]

E3 wise, on 25 April 2013 - 05:47 PM, said:

British EV Charging Stations

Well were back from England doing the field work for a major grocery retailer that is now taking bids on integrating 75 EV charging stations over the next 2 years at its stores throughout England. The stations goals are to integrating roughly 65% or higher from solar and wind, with the remainder to be made up from grid tied integration.

Design parameters call for 30 minute to 1 hour charging stations using 50 kW, 400-500 VDC, and 100 – 125 amp service.

I'm from Britain.

A couple or three points in response to your post.

People who shop at supermarkets mostly do so during the day. Our national grid is already stretched and we import some of our electricity from continental Europe so finding the additional energy for the charging stations might be a bit of a challenge. This is something that needs to be tackled at national level. And, if it  requires uprated generation, transmission and distribution it will be neither cheap nor quick.

This something I posted on another forum some years ago:



The recession may have staved it off for a while but this a serious issue.

As far as grocery shopping is concerned, Mrs B does ours on-line. It gets delivered in a van that services 20-30 drops. That's 20-30 car trips that need not be made. If more people cared more for the environment this is how they should shop in my opinion.
That, of course, would obviate the need for charging stations for supermarket shoppers.

The uptake of EVs in Britain is very low. Cost, range, and recharge time are factors stacked against them. Regardless of the validity objections, Joe public isn't buying. This came into my business email a few days ago:

The Engineer

For the avoidance of doubt, I am pro-EVs. We design, manufacture, and sell drive train components (power electronics and motors) some of which go into EVs. One of my erstwhile colleagues is working on fuel cell solutions. But I'm pragmatic.

One final point - just a FYI.

England ≠ Britain
Britain ≠ England

They are neither interchangeable nor synonymous........

[eds]

Besoeker, on 26 April 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

As far as grocery shopping is concerned, Mrs B does ours on-line. It gets delivered in a van that services 20-30 drops. That's 20-30 car trips that need not be made. If more people cared more for the environment this is how they should shop in my opinion.
That, of course, would obviate the need for charging stations for supermarket shoppers.

That sounds perfect for a Milkfloat (that could use the supermarket solar powered charging stations)
Zero power cost & Zero Emissions.